Anyone interested in a small critique group for fiction/non-fiction in or near Woodstock?

[Randy Burgess]

I’m looking to put together a small group of from 3 to 5 nonfiction and/or fiction writers from Woodstock and surrounding towns.

My reasons are twofold. First, although I'm an experienced professional writer, I’ve been trying my hand lately at a new genre for me, personal essays, and could use some detailed feedback. And second, for the past two years I’ve been refining what I think is an unusual and effective method of critiquing in the writing classes I teach at New York University’s school of continuing ed.

This method is based on what writing teacher Peter Elbow has described in his various books as “reader-based feedback.” It consists of each reader giving their reactions *as* a reader to the writing. I.e. as you read, you take note of what’s going through your head and heart and gut, be it boredom, joy, irritation, puzzlement, etc. And you tie these reactions to the places in the text where they occurred, rather than leaving it vague. With feedback of this sort, the writer can make their own diagnosis of whether the piece is working or not. Another neat thing is, no teacher required - peers can do it for each other so long as they honor the guidelines.

I think this feedback could help me a lot - more than a teacher or workshop. Also, I think it’s something I would enjoy passing on (it has various wrinkles, all of them easy to learn) to a small group. So it might be useful for others, too. I also have the idea that other writers in the group could bring in feedback methods they’d like to try, too. In effect, everyone could take turns leading the group.

I’m thinking a small enough group could do this easily over a series of 4 to 5 get-togethers this summer in Woodstock. No big commitment. New or old work would be OK, as would fiction or non-fiction. Probably stick to prose as poetry and plays are uncertain ground for me.

I would like to work with people reasonably near my own level of ambition & ability - less scary that way! To indicate where I’m at, I’m posting an essay here from Hudson Valley Magazine - the only one I’ve gotten published so far. I find essays much harder than regular magazine articles.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, please do let me know. There is no commitment at this point - I’m just looking to find a few sympathetic souls to see if something like this might work.

[Brent Robison]

Randy, I enjoyed your essay and I'm interested in the the critiquing method you described, so although I had decided I was forever done with writing workshops and peer groups, I'm thinking hmm... maybe I'd like to give this one a try for the summer. Let's see who else responds, eh?

-- Brent

[Randy Burgess]

Hi Brent -

Before I forget, thanks for setting up this community site.

And thanks for the interest in the critique group - I agree, let's see if anyone else is curious too.

Re: your comment about being done with workshops - although I like this method & want to try it out, I also think that in the long run, a writer is his or her own best critic. The problem I have is that for me, this only becomes true when I've let a piece sit a long time . . . as in really long . . . as in months or even a year, sometimes. The more ambitious the piece, the truer this seems to be for me. I am somewhat reassured to know that John Fowles did the same thing - he would crank out a draft and put it aside for many months. Hard to get used to, though - my immediate urge upon finishing a first draft is always to "polish" and "make it perfect," ha ha ha!

[Brent Robison]

Yes... and the older I get, the harder it is to face "losing" months or years hiding a manuscript away. "I could die tonight," Cat Stevens, er, Yusuf Islam once sang...

[carol lee]

Hi, Randy,
I'm an essayist also, having published a column last year locally and for years prior in other publications. I'm very much in need of a new writing group. I've randomly attached one of my About Town essays and a new, more personal essay, yet to be published. Look forward to hearing from you. carol lee

[Randy Burgess]

Hi Carol, thanks for your interest. I read the essays and also visited your blog - found the piece about daffodils very moving.

I have been suffering through a bad cold the last 3 or 4 days, so I am a little slow of mind as I write this - coffee is usually the miracle drug for me but not so far this morning!

Anyway, my thought is that at some point soon I should post a better description of the Peter Elbow method that I teach. And in the meantime, we can wait & see if we can get a couple more folks interested.

[carol lee]

Randy Burgess said:

Hi Carol, thanks for your interest. I read the essays and also visited your blog - found the piece about daffodils very moving.

I have been suffering through a bad cold the last 3 or 4 days, so I am a little slow of mind as I write this - coffee is usually the miracle drug for me but not so far this morning!

Anyway, my thought is that at some point soon I should post a better description of the Peter Elbow method that I teach. And in the meantime, we can wait & see if we can get a couple more folks interested.

[carol lee]

Hi, Randy, just went to your blog and found it very interesting. Just ordered Martha Frankel's Hats and Eyeglasses,
as a result. Hope we can get a few people interested in a group. I need the feedback. carol lee

Randy Burgess said:

Hi Carol, thanks for your interest. I read the essays and also visited your blog - found the piece about daffodils very moving.

I have been suffering through a bad cold the last 3 or 4 days, so I am a little slow of mind as I write this - coffee is usually the miracle drug for me but not so far this morning!

Anyway, my thought is that at some point soon I should post a better description of the Peter Elbow method that I teach. And in the meantime, we can wait & see if we can get a couple more folks interested.

[Randy Burgess]

FYI, for anyone interested, I'm attaching a document that describes the Elbow critique method in more detail. It's meant for use by friends & colleagues who are looking at a piece of writing I've sent them - but I must confess I haven't actually put it to use yet. I have no idea what the reaction will be when I first put it to the test. If you look it over, let me know what you think.

[Thomas Brennan]

Hello Randy,

I might be interested in the group. I'm willing to travel to Woodstock although it would be more than an hour trip for me. I live in Garrison. If people from any distance from Woodstock were interested perhaps we could meet at different locations on a round robin basis. And for the moment, I could only do it in June now since I also have a summer house but mine is in the Adirondacks. I see that you teach in NYC. During the fall I also teach in the Bronx (Lehman College) and maybe you might think of a group in NYC during the fall. Perhaps I should take your class.

Many years ago I read some of Elbow's work and I just went down to my writing library and picked off his Writing With Power--it's not as dogeared as it should be.

I read your essay and, since I have a summer place, I identified with many of the tales you told. Last week I opened up our "camp"--as they call it in the Adirondacks--and my stock phrase to everyone is that I am there alone to evict all the winter residents.

Since your objective is some feedback I offer a consideation here about your essay. I thought you might have named your girlfriend when you mention her the first time. The use of the word "girlfriend" later in the essay suggests some reticence on the writer's part--my question was perhaps the writer was hiding something and that feeling on the part of this reader is certainly not what you wanted to convey here. I especially liked the blending of the personal and the scientific in the essay. As I enjoyed I also learned--exactly one of the purposes of an essay.

Regards,

Tom Brennan

[Randy Burgess]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your interest. Yes, a round-robin locale is a possibility, if we get a couple of people on the other side of the river interested - I think Carol Lee is over on your side too.

Can you read the critique guidelines I posted and let me know how they strike you vs. your own experience in the past? I am looking for reader responses to my own work, which is very different than what usually is offered . . . different even from the comment you have offered here on my "Animal Invasion" essay. I am curious about whether other people are interested in this approach also.

Also, what sort of writing do you do these days?

thanks,
Randy

[Thomas Brennan]

Hello Randy,

I read your notes. First, you have a wonderful typo...word by SWORD...

So, I went back to your essay and converted it to a Microsoft Word Document. Then I reread it again, underlining with straight lines what I liked and wavy lines what I didn't, as instructed. Next I added a comment to my underlines and wavy lines. I think I'm on the right track here according to the directions. I've uploaded the file with the underlines and my comments.

Most of my own writing has been fiction and I have had several stories published by small literary magazines, one in Brent's Prima Materia Vol 2. Right now I am trying to finish the final chapters for a memoir. The only essays I have written tend to be humorous.

Regards,

Tom

[Randy Burgess]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for catching the typo, and for the considerable effort involved in critiquing the essay.

However, a critique of this essay in particular is not what I have been asking for in this thread - as I think I mentioned to Carol a few posts earlier. At this stage I am only trying to locate folks who might be interested in the kind of group I have in mind, which I see as very different from the usual.

Thus, my question to you was (and still is), what do you think of this Elbow-style approach versus other critique methods you have used in the past, whether in workshops or in private correspondence w/friends & colleagues? Is it something you would find useful? Are there other methods you have enjoyed that you would want to share? Etc.

Also, do you have a place where you post your stories or other works? I enjoyed visiting both Brent's and Carol Lee's web sites, for example.

--R.